Author Topic: Proposed team competition structure for 2021/22 season  (Read 192 times)

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Proposed team competition structure for 2021/22 season
« on: May 19, 2021, 04:24:40 am »
Post your views on the proposals for team competitions in 2021/22

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Robin_Kneebone

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FROM HUGH BROWN

A few initial thoughts.
In the knock-out competitions, I think each club (or group of clubs) should only be allowed one entry. This would avoid a repetition of Carrick's ploy last season of entering two teams and deciding which one to default after the draw.
If there are more than four teams in a knock-out competition, there should be an elimination to reduce the number to four. Otherwise the final could be the third match played by one or both teams on a single day.
I would recommend that the mileage cut-off be set to 40 miles. Otherwise Bude might never get a home match.
It wasn't a ploy!! We lost players between signing up 2 teams and the match dates. And something happened to one of the opposing teams too. However, given our loss of players (Adam, Toby, Bea, Boris) I reckon we'd enter just one team anyway. But I don't agree that it should be a rule. Let clubs expand, more players, more chess.

Ian George

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Cups
I didn't realise you were thinking of running both cups on the same day. Surely there'd be an overlap of players in the teams? Clubs field under 130 (or whatever the Grime restriction would be) in their Busby team. I think the two competitions should be on 2 separate days. We could 'occupy' the stronger players with an event on the same day as the Grime, and vice-versa. Are we going to go to average grade, or total grade (same thing) for the Grime?
Presumably there'd be a play-off for 3rd place for the beaten semi-finalists?


a) Agreed. Two separate days with separate event for those not involved.
b) Yes to 3rd place play-off
c) In line with your suggestion, I'm now proposing that all rating-limited competitions (Roberts Cup, Roger Grime Cup, 500 League) use average rating.

I've amended the proposals document accordingly
« Last Edit: May 21, 2021, 04:21:29 am by Ian George »

Ian George

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First half of season:
During the first half of the season, since all the matches would be on the same days, I favour a SWISS with teams of 6. There's a problem if we get an odd number of teams, but then there is a problem with that anyway if it's APA.
A one-division league would have perhaps Carrick 2 Camborne 2 Bude 1 Liskeard 1 Calstock 1 Newquay 1. I doubt if Lerryn would raise an additional team.
Given the smaller number of players in the teams in the 2-division proposal perhaps Lerryn would raise an extra team.


I favour a single-division six-round Swiss with teams of six. Before OTB suspension Lerryn combined with Liskeard and Calstock to form a single squad.

I've amended the proposals document accordingly.

 

Ian George

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I'm happy with all the proposals.

For practical reasons I'd consider adding the following:
a) Where captains agree, when no digital clock/s are available (flat battery?), an analogue clock may be used instead (with equivalent overall time)
b) where captains agree, individual boards (or the whole match?) may be played on-line (in advance or simultaneously?)

I'm against a). I think that it's a club's responsibility to ensure that their clocks are in working order. Maybe keep a stock of spare batteries? Allowing a club to revert to analogue clocks under the old rules is a regressive measure. All clubs will have six clocks anyway. In my view, if the home club can't provided 4 or 5 working clocks, it should default the number of boards by which they fall short.

I'm also against b). I think that the online and OTB forms of chess should be kept separate. The proposals are designed to provide for people who want to play OTB chess, of whom there are many. We also have players of all strengths who will not play online. It wouldn't be fair to them or their teams to exclude them from any match. When we resume OTB play the online operation will continue for the many who like to play both and the few who will only play online.

« Last Edit: May 21, 2021, 10:55:29 am by Ian George »

Ian George

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A few initial thoughts.
a) In the knock-out competitions, I think each club (or group of clubs) should only be allowed one entry. This would avoid a repetition of Carrick's ploy last season of entering two teams and deciding which one to default after the draw.
b) If there are more than four teams in a knock-out competition, there should be an elimination to reduce the number to four. Otherwise the final could be the third match played by one or both teams on a single day.
c) I would recommend that the mileage cut-off be set to 40 miles. Otherwise Bude might never get a home match.

a) Maybe unnecessary with a random draw before each round? I'm in favour of letting as many people take part as possible.
b) Yes, of course. I meant to put this in but forgot.
c) Not ideal for Bude, I agree, but I prefer 30. 40 miles is still a lot of night driving, possibly on  country roads, with players unlikely to arrive home before midnight.

« Last Edit: May 22, 2021, 04:44:36 am by Ian George »

Ian George

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Proposed rule changes 2021/22

The present proposals make a barrier, if not down the Irish Sea, at least between Cornwall’s league and cup provision (0TB) and its current successful online provision. We presumably do not want the one to squeeze out the other, so there may be a case for (say) the A W Busby and Roger Grime cups being online tournaments. I have not attempted here to second guess what online provision should remain, but I do suggest that the county specifies an ongoing commitment to the online 4NCL league and factors this into any consideration of chess workload for our members.


Agreed. They should be  kept completely separate and run in parallel. That is one reason why I do not support playing the Busby and Grime Cups online.

My intention is that the online operation should continue in its present form when OTB chess returns. That means organising the following events:
Cornwall Online League
Cornwall Online Congress
Cornwall Knock-out tournament
Western Counties Championship
International online matches (meaning against teams outside the county boundaries!)
Thematic tournaments
Zoom analysis sessions
Involvement of Cornish teams/players in 4NCL competitions.

I'm confident that there will be sufficient support from the players to make this a viable project.


« Last Edit: May 22, 2021, 05:57:50 am by Ian George »

Ian George

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Proposed rule changes 2021/22

With regard to constitutional issues surrounding holding an AGM or SGM in the current restrictive circumstances, the proposed special arrangements are clearly reasonable and a basis for going forward.


Good

Ian George

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Proposed rule changes 2021/22

Team Leagues 2021/22: County Shield and Roberts Cup
I am happy with the suggestion that the County Shield and the Roberts Cup be played as two regionalised double-round competitions in the second half of the season, but in my view (strongly supported by Don King) we need to be beware of over-restricting the pool of players we meet regularly. So minimally I would suggest two clubs going forward to a county-wide semi-final stage in both leagues. This ties up with the proposal to seek a central venue for such arrangements. I would regard Newquay as an ‘eastern’ club to get a balance.

I don't have a preference for a final only or semi-finals + final. Let the people decide! When the time comes you may want to put forward a motion on that.

I think that the proposed structure provides sufficient variety for the danger of "over-restricting the pool of players" to be too great.

Ian George

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Proposed rule changes 2021/22

I am against both the AW Busby and the Roger Grime cups being played on a ‘single weekend’ if this means the same weekend (the phrase is ambiguous). Clubs like Lerryn would not be able to field a Busby team that did not include players eligible for the Grime.



Of course, you're right. I've already amended the Proposed rule changes 2021/22 document to provide for separate weekends for each cup.

Ian George

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Proposed rule changes 2021/22

The 500 league
I imagine this will need to be renamed the 1650 league, although it does not sound very sexy (‘Restricted Ratings league’?)


I don't see any need for change. People are familiar with it.

Ian George

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Proposed rule changes 2021/22

Knock-out Cups: A W Busby and Roger Grime
My suggestion here is that one or both of the cup competitions could be online, rather than a one-day weekend competition. The same could be considered for the so-called ‘new competition’ (do we really need one?) although I would prefer the space to be used instead for 4NCL provision on Lichess for both individuals and clubs and local innovations like Ian’s casual Gambit Tournaments. Regular scheduled simuls should also be considered as part o the ‘mix’.


I strongly oppose this. In my view the OTB and online operations should be kept strictly separate. Having the KO cups as an online competition would exclude people who, for one reason or another, will not play online. At the Camborne club we have at least four. I don't that other clubs also have online refuseniks. An online team KO competition can be arranged if there is any demand for one.

New competition. Why not have one? The format is one we haven't used before. I support it.

The online set up that you advocate is a subset of what we're doing now

Robin_Kneebone

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I think the '500'; part of this league's title will look increasingly odd. If it's the only Rapidplay league, I suggest it is called that. Rapid League perhaps.

Robin_Kneebone

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Proposed rule changes 2021/22


My intention is that the online operation should continue in its present form when OTB chess returns. That means organising the following events:
Cornwall Online League
Cornwall Online Congress
Cornwall Knock-out tournament
Western Counties Championship
International online matches (meaning against teams outside the county boundaries!)
Thematic tournaments
Zoom analysis sessions
Involvement of Cornish teams/players in 4NCL competitions.

I'm confident that there will be sufficient support from the players to make this a viable project.

I think there will not be enough players wishing to play regularly to justify all these. The list sounds like the current online offering, though if there is ONE Cornwall online league (I favour Swiss, best solution to our widely disparate teams and works because no venues need to be booked), one set of cups, one online Congress, and a limited number of other matches then there'd be space for a return to OTB. As far as OTB goes, I think that should be scaled back from the pre-pandemic total, to leave space for online chess. If OTB chess returns, then so will the rest of normal life and other activities will occupy a lot of my time; and I'm guessing that many other people will be similarly itching to do a greater variety of things.

hughgb

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Proposed rule changes 2021/22


My intention is that the online operation should continue in its present form when OTB chess returns. That means organising the following events:
Cornwall Online League
Cornwall Online Congress
Cornwall Knock-out tournament
Western Counties Championship
International online matches (meaning against teams outside the county boundaries!)
Thematic tournaments
Zoom analysis sessions
Involvement of Cornish teams/players in 4NCL competitions.

I'm confident that there will be sufficient support from the players to make this a viable project.

I think there will not be enough players wishing to play regularly to justify all these. The list sounds like the current online offering, though if there is ONE Cornwall online league (I favour Swiss, best solution to our widely disparate teams and works because no venues need to be booked), one set of cups, one online Congress, and a limited number of other matches then there'd be space for a return to OTB. As far as OTB goes, I think that should be scaled back from the pre-pandemic total, to leave space for online chess. If OTB chess returns, then so will the rest of normal life and other activities will occupy a lot of my time; and I'm guessing that many other people will be similarly itching to do a greater variety of things.